Secession: Who WILL Be First?

by Russell D. Longcore

I’ve been pondering a lot lately about which state it will be that will be the first to secede from the United States of America. For today, let me muse about Texas and Montana.

Texas has a vibrant secessionist organization called the Texas Nationalist Movement. Run by dynamic President Daniel Miller and charismatic Membership Director Cary Wise, they have spread the concept of Texas Independence far and wide in the Lone Star state. The TNM is by far the most well-operated and organized independence movement in the nation, and has touched more lives with the message of regaining personal liberty and nationhood than any other group in North America.

To my knowledge, Montana has no organized secessionist or independence group. So…you may ask…why pick Montana as a potential secession candidate?

Much has been written about The American Redoubt, a Western liberty “reservation” modeled roughly after Galt’s Gulch of the book Atlas Shrugged. The Redoubt could work but it would work best as a new North American nation, not simply a do-over of American government and American culture.

So let’s look at some informal observations about each state.

Distance From DC

Montana is about 1,800 miles from DC. Texas is about 1,500 away from DC. So no clear advantage there. Both are in the West.

Population

Texas has 26,400,000 people that can be counted…probably a lot more. Montana has 998,000. Texas has a long border with Mexico, and lots of illegals enter Texas across that border. Montana has a 500 mile-long border with Canada, and I would guess there are not a lot of naughty Canadians sneaking across the border so they can be Americans.

So, if 25% of Montana’s population became secession supporters, that would be about 250,000 people. If 25% of Texans got religion about secession, that would be 6.6 million. That means that about 20 million people in Texas would remain undecided or unsupportive of secession. My gut tells me that selling secession in Montana would be a lot easier to do.

Attitude

Texans have lots of attitude about their state. Everything’s better and bigger in Texas. The state was born of secession from Mexico, and that victory is still very important to the heritage and pride of Texans. But in a state of over 26 million people, there are lots of non-Texans who don’t share that Texas spirit.

Montanans have attitude also, and much of that attitude is found in the phrase “leave me alone.” That should not be confused with unfriendliness. I dare you to find a Montanan who is not friendly. The Montanans I’ve met are Montanans first, then US citizens second. They are fiercely independent and most would be willing to fight for their liberty.

Logistics

Texas has a shoreline on the Gulf of Mexico with many ports and an international border with Mexico. Montana is landlocked, with its northern border an international border with Canada.

Liveability

Liveability simply means that when the American economy collapses, where will it be easier to survive?

Texas has about any kind of terrain you could ask for. The piney woods of east Texas, the flatlands of the Panhandle, the hill country of SW Texas, the low country and shoreline of the Coast all have their charm. Texas has a nearly year-round growing season. However, Texas does not have the fresh water resources of Montana. Thank God for the big aquifers like the Edwards. The Texas economy is a growing and thriving. And don’t forget about its petroleum and natural gas resources. Texas will have no problem whatsoever existing successfully as a nation after secession.

Montana has the spectacular beauty of the Rocky Mountains, rolling plains, hills and valleys, even glaciers. The growing season in Montana is short, beginning in late spring and ending in early fall. But there is plenty of fresh water. They do not have the petro resources of Texas, and would have to import most of their needs.

Texas’ year-round climate is much more survivable than Montana’s climate. If you had to live in a tent in February, where would you rather be, Kalispell or San Antonio?

Federal Land

Montana has 30% of its land mass in Federal ownership. In 2011, the legislature considered SB254, which would have given Montana the authority to use eminent domain to take back federal land. The bill went nowhere.

Texas has only 1.9% of its land in Federal hands. Look at to see who owns the West.

So, it looks like it would be a lot easier to throw the Federal government out of Texas than Montana. But wait a minute.

Military Bases

Texas has 15 military bases on its soil. Montana has one small Air Force base. So, if DC wants to play rough in a secession scenario, Montana may have an advantage.

I am sure that there are other criteria that you can suggest that give one or the other an advantage in secession. But at this time, I still believe that Texas has the best chance of being the first state to secede from the United States of America.

Next time, we will look at Alaska and Hawaii.

Secession is the hope for humanity. Who will be first?

DumpDC. Six Letters That Can Change History.

© Copyright 2012, Russell D. Longcore. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted, provided full credit is given.

89 Responses to Secession: Who WILL Be First?

  1. [...] Russell looks at secession-state possibilities. [...]

    • humblehammys says:

      I have already had a personal secession from the Obama’s America the moment I knew he was elected. I have been searching for homes in Canada and Sweden, but now that I have heard of Real American States talking of leaving the Obamanation, I have been checking places to live in these smart states. I dislike this destroyer of America so much, Every time I saw his face on television I would turn it off…an UnAmeridan for president. I wonder if these rich liberals that voted for him will like it when they lose their jobs and their fancy life style.

      Interesting that conservatives are right wing and liberals are left wing…the Bible says wisdom is to the rights and fools are to the left…

  2. John says:

    What about NH?

  3. fabbersmith says:

    Montana wouldn’t leave in a vacuum. Wyoming has oil, and we’d probably go with. A fair amount of the region would.

    Regardless of what you think about the NWO stuff, there is a movement to keep people in a global, controlled system.

    If Montana secedes, they will withdraw themselves and the populations under their control from that system–a true wildcard.

    If Texas secedes, they will remain in that system, just as an independent nation. They may buck the system here and there, but for the most part, they’ll stay where control can be exerted, and TPTB won’t mind so much. Since the US won’t be able to support a long term civil war, and the rest of the world would be too distracted by folks like Iran messing around in the power vacuum, I don’t see a lot of foreign support, it’d be considered reasonable to negotiate Texas leaving the union.

  4. Jimmy the Saint says:

    Texas probably has more wealth than Montana. To survive, any secessionist state will need outside help. Texans could very easily get arms from Mexican drug cartels, and they have access to South American states that might be happy to tweak the Gringos in DC. Montana probably wouldn’t get much help from/through Canada.

    • RegT says:

      A few notes: Montana has two river valleys where the growing season is much better, quite good, in fact – the whole Bitterroot Valley (where I live) and also the Clarks Fork River Valley, from Heron down to Plains, which is actually the best area in the state. It even gets hot enough to grow melons around Plains. In the eastern part of the state, grains and hay are doable.

      There are quite a few missile silos in and around Great Falls. Anyone who has read Molon Labe by Boston Tea Party (Kenneth Royce) will remember the significance of that. When Big Sis and Northcom decide to squash any secession movement within Montana, it would be nice to be able to say, “Back the fuck off.” There may be OathKeepers in the missile fields who would be willing to help keep Montana free.

      Finally, it is my opinion that there are more people, proportional to each states population, in Montana who want to become free. Missoula may have a bunch of Earth Muffins/granola eaters, but nothing like the Left in Austin/San Antonio/Houston (where I was born).

      Which state wrote [Gary Marbut, in Missoula] and passed the first Firearms Freedom Act? Hint: it wasn’t Texas.

    • Tim Hancock says:

      I was born in WYO and lived in MT for over 20 years. I think WYO in more conservative. You have cities like Helena and Missoula in MT that if you took a drive around town would be loaded with OBAMA campaign signs. Both senators from MT are Democrats and have been around long enough they will do anything to stay in power…including selling out to Obama and CO.
      I vote WYO

  5. Dombrot says:

    Texas is not part of The West. Cows, cowboys and listening to “country” music is not enough to make them Western. Like you say, they have an attitude, and it sure ain’t Western.

    • Xena2themax says:

      I’m from WY and you’ve got that right! We’re an entirely different breed in views and attitude from Texas and we’ve got Chris Ledoux’s memory to prove it.

  6. amphibspook says:

    In a total collapse/restructure (granted, beyond the point of this excellent article) what Canadian Providences will secede and join the Redoubt?

    • fabbersmith says:

      Mostly the western ones, I figure. Quebec might play along, but they’d want total independence.

      • JW M says:

        Not beyond reason. In the early 1980s, in Saskatchewan, the Unionest Party advocated the western provinces join the United States. A poll in June and July, 2005 finds 35.6% of residents of the four provinces think “Western Canadians should begin to explore the idea of forming their own country.”

    • RSEarl says:

      The idea of Canadians somehow joining up with you Americans has been one of your wet dreams since 1776. It isn’t going to happen. The cultural differences between us and you are simply too great. You Americans have always had the opinion that Canadians are simply strange little people to the North who are Americans under the skin. We are not. Get used to it. And before you begin to make assumptions, I was born and raised in Alberta, and though a little long in the tooth, still live in the west.

      • Rog says:

        Read the article. Then read the context of our comments. Then understand the intelligence of the comments in response to my query. I would bet that rural Canadians have more in common with Americans of the rural west, than have with coastal/city Canadians. We are, after all, cousins and share our Colonial history.

  7. Traxx says:

    If any secession occurs it will only be so that they can more easily be incorporated into the ‘North American Union’. It’s the Soviet Union all over again, but let’s pretend that secession that this wouldn’t advance the Globalist agenda.

    I can’t believe you’d be such a dupe and advocate this………….oh well easily manipulated by the Globalist………..just like the election…….oh oh anybody but Bush 1, we get Clinton..anybody but Clinton, we get King George Bush II…and what does Bush do, he makes sure that a VP can’t run so our current Demoncrat Presiden Huessin can win.

    Really can you deliniate any differance in their polices for me, no not really

    what ever!…………………………………….

    Traaxx

    • dumpdc says:

      Dear Mr. Traxx: Messages like yours always amuse me, so thanks. I also note that you offer nothing but criticism, nothing in the way of helpful ideas. If you spend time in the Archive, you’ll learn more about secession. Cheers, Russ

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  9. GunRights4US says:

    If the crumbling empire decided to “pull a Lincoln” and play the one-nation-indivisible card, then Montana would likely go poof. Texas… not quite as likely

    • Churchill says:

      Hehehe. Be proud Texas, after all, you gave us Both Bush’s and the PATRIOT ACT along with other nice little surprises.and a very big boost for the DHS/FEMA. The Inland Northwest doesn’t herd as easily as Texas does.

  10. john says:

    I think Utah deserves a look too. The silver currency exchange the State has passed legislation on is significant. The percentage of Federally siezed lands is high and the Utah Legislature wants it back. The State is not broke either…

    Beautiful place

    The Allegory

  11. Jackson says:

    The original Free State Movement did a survey of all the States to see which would be best for take-over by freedom lovers. There was a vote held, it used a bit of a strange methodology, and in the end New Hampshire won. But a lot of this was put down to the origin of the movemnet’s founder: he was from Connecticut and had done most of his recruiting out there, so there was an East Coast bias.

    A spin-off movement was formed: Free State Wyoming. The aforementioned Boston T-Party was the founder of that, and he had a more laise faire approach to things. He surveyed the Western states and decided that Wyoming was the best bet. Wyoming has the smallest population of any State: 598,000 vs. 998,000 for Montana.

    If you wanted to take over a State via elections each immigrant voting would have twice the impact in Wyoming as Montana. Plus, Wyoming is more freedom oriented to start with. Other than the nest/infestation around Jackson Hole it’s pretty liberty oriented. And, instant bonus: no income tax (Montana has one). Montana has recently had a Democratic Governor, and seems to have a populist Democratic strand in its politics that is abscent in Wyoming.

    Both the Free State Project and Free State Wyoming can be googled and there is lots of interesting information on them, and other states evaluated by both groups in selecting their states.

    As for who is going to leave the Union first, there is no doubt that it will be Hawaii in my estimation. Three key reasons. First: location. It’s already the most isolated State. Far easier to imagine separation when you are already separate! 3000 miles to San Francisco. Second: history. Lots of States brag about their independence, but it was extremely short lived, more of a bridge period, for most of them. Even Texas was not really a full functioning independent nation for very long. More like a run-away colony. Same with West Texas (modern day Gulf Coast of Louisiana, Georgia and Alabama.) Same with Vermont.

    Hawaii was independent for almost it’s entire history. The islands were independent of each other for most of their history. In 1810 they were united as a Kingdom. That was overthrown and a Republic was established as was anexed by the USA in 1900. It only became a state in 1950.

    No other state, that I am aware of, can fall back on a statement like this one, made by the last Royal ruler of Hawaii at the time of US annexation:

    “I Liliʻuokalani, by the Grace of God and under the Constitution of the Hawaiian Kingdom, Queen, do hereby solemnly protest against any and all acts done against myself and the Constitutional Government of the Hawaiian Kingdom by certain persons claiming to have established a Provisional Government of and for this Kingdom.

    That I yield to the superior force of the United States of America whose Minister Plenipotentiary, His Excellency John L. Stevens, has caused United States troops to be landed at Honolulu and declared that he would support the Provisional Government.

    Now to avoid any collision of armed forces, and perhaps the loss of life, I do this under protest and impelled by said force yield my authority until such time as the Government of the United States shall, upon facts being presented to it, undo the action of its representatives and reinstate me in the authority which I claim as the Constitutional Sovereign of the Hawaiian Islands.”

    The third reason is politics. The politics of the USA is decidely leftist, even the so-called right have internalized a lot of leftist thinking. No rebellion from the right will be tolerated. The right are evil, white, Bible-thumping, racist, gun-loving and any attempt as seccssion would be a moral crusade cheered on by the East Coast elites, news media and world.

    On the other hand the secession of Hawaii’ will become a celebrity cause, as the fate of the poor Hawaiin people under the unfair, illegal occupation of the once utopican Kingdom will gain support from all the usual suspects, including the UN. At that point the USA would never consider sending a military detatchment to take over paradise.

    Hawaii first!

    • dumpdc says:

      Jackson-

      Very well written…thanks. Russ

    • Andrew says:

      Appreciate the analysis. Having worked in Hawaii for intermittently long periods in the nineties, I find the idea most appealing. That said, several troubling questions come to mind:

      First, people having full (rare) or partial native Hawaiian ancestry, owing to their Polynesian roots and island culture do not IMO think in terms of individual sovereignty or private property rights. They regard all land as sacred and therefore “public.” Social castes, slavery, and human sacrifice are part of their past. They long for restoration of a strong monarchy under which their pride as warriors would be reasserted. .

      The Japanese and Chinese are large minorities, commercially powerful and politically influential, strongly tending toward collectivism, mercantilism, and ethnocentrism.

      By comparison Whites are a small minority and, though benignly tolerated for the most part, are seen, again IMO, as interlopers. Libertarians of any stripe are even less numerous. How influential would we, who desire strict limits on government, decentralization of authority, free markets, and private property rights, be?

      Second, spinning off Jackson’s point, as the world’s most isolated island chain Hawaii may indeed have its advantages. However, as the economic collapse accelerates, how accessible will it be for secessionists and other freedom-lovers who seek to migrate to a redoubt?

      Though Hawaii would be sweet, Wyoming or Montana might be the more pragmatic choices.

      • Jackson says:

        Yes, Andrew, I agree. The result of Hawaiin secession are not likely to be a Libertarian paradise.

        In fact if the USA broke up into nine or ten different nations it’s hard to figure out where the Libertarian one would be. Collectivism has a stong fan-base in the USA, which is why Barry Obama won 53% of the popular vote in 2008 and the fellows running against him then and now also support a lot of collectivist policies.

        The idea for Free State Wyoming is that there are probably 100,000 liberty lovers in the USA, and if they would each take the initiative to move to Wyoming the political climate there could be completely transformed. That might actually be the more important part of the project than the secession per-se.

        It’s easy for me to imagine secession taking place and ALL of the resulting states being more of less Leftist – some hard left, explicitly socialist and others middle-left FDR style social welfare states and stlil no place for liberty.

    • FlogDonkey says:

      The USA wouldn’t need to send a military detachment. There are no less than 11 military bases on the islands of Hawaii.

      No secession movement would ever get off the ground with such a military presence. If one ever got started, the press would spin it into a “treacherous insurgent terrorist attack” and the government would then have the support of the people (remember 9/11) to continue the war on terror, and to bring it to own soil to “protect our freedom”. Then new legislation would be passed granting the federal government much broader and greater power, and the American populous would be all for it, because we are all idiots who are afraid of the big bad terrorist.

      Either that, or martial law across the board, which would never be relinquished.

      The more I think about this, I’ve heard this story before.
      Star Wars.

      • Ken says:

        The politics of Hawaii are most definately democrat socialist. The GOP is a decided minority there. Guns are very regulated. Good luck getting a permit to carry. Taxes are high and medicine is socialized. ALL fuel is imported as well as all foodstuffs and consumer products. In a grid down situation that island nation will starve to death very quickly. They have the land to grow food and export to the whole pacific rim. It’s only used for pineapples and sugarcane. Some beef is raised on the big island and could supply the islands but fuel to transport it remains a problem. The population of the island is about one million, a hundred and fifty thousand are military and their families. Don’t think for one second that the US will let pearl harbor be used by some other nation for a base.

    • Heather says:

      WY has no income tax, MT has no sales tax. There are still active groups encouraging people to move to WY, ID, and MT to work toward greater freedom there (secession not ruled out). These groups were started by Free State people who did not feel NH was a good bet. The discussion is primarily still in yahoogroups, though. I own one of the http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/FreeMontanaProject There’s a fair amount of useful info aggregated in the links and files sections. Another such yahoo group is the Montana Alliance for Liberty (less MT-specific than the name suggests and more active than my group is). Personally, my husband and I have been trying to figure out how to move to MT without starving. If all goes as it looks like it will, we might just have it figured out & are tentatively planning to move around election day

    • Tim Hancock says:

      Hawaii is to liberal to leave….Democrats all the way.

      • Gandalf says:

        Take it from a “Haole” who’s lived in Hawaii for over forty years (and trust me; I don’t care how long a mainland white has lived here, he/she will never be a Kamaaina, but always and forever, a haole (i.e. foreigner) to the local non-whites.). Hawaii will never seced from the Union. Ain’t gonna happen. First off, the islands are too valuable as a forward base in the Pacific. For that reason alone the DC government would never let it go. They would kill or imprison everyone in the state first, if necessary. And, they wouldn’t have to bring in many troops to do it, if any. As was previously stated, the feds have plenty of bodies and firepower here already.

        Moreover, as was also pointed out in postings above, Hawaii is probably the most leftist inclined state in the nation (next to California, perhaps). Those of us on the center/right don’t call it the PRH (Peoples’ Republic of Hawaii) for nothing.

        Hawaii…secede? There’s a better chance the Devil will be serving ice cold beer in Hell before that happens!

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  13. Texan says:

    Texas also has its own power grid.

  14. Larry says:

    I personally think secession is a moot point for now, Simply because Americans in general will never sacrifice anything that will disrupt their lives. It’s fun to think about it, But the reality is, we are Soft, Obese, rich, and privileged.Our lives are made up of television and movies, punctuated by10 second snippets of world news dictated by the media, then it’s back to our chosen form of sedation/entertainment Secession would require personal sacrifice, and frankly, We don’t have the stomach for it.. Talk to me in another 75- 100 years when the population out weighs the resources, when hauling water, growing your own food, bartering for needed goods and paying for protection, forces the contraction of states. When the Federal government becomes ineffective and States are forced to act on their own. We are better then 50 yrs away from that now. Nationally, things happen very very slow. and that includes the run up to secession.

    By then the Geopolitical climate could very well have changed ( case in point, the “Republic of California” , sounds silly now considering where they are politically. ) Montana could become the Wests New York, and Texas could become the Souths Illinois.

  15. Joe Deats says:

    Why not mention Idaho? Most folks here have no love for a big blue state run federal leech. I could see Montana and Idaho leaving together.

    • Churchill says:

      Much of Idaho is under Federal control. I know because I live in the Panhandle. Which way the Indians Tribes will go as the country breaks up might be a concern, if they choose to apply for protection to the UN is quite possible via that UN Indigenous Treaty. Idaho’s current Governor as like the last one and the Leutenant Gov. are of complete Rhino stock, our reps to DC, both, Congress and Senators are patsies very seldom if ever step out of line and who prefer and encourage Chinese and Foreign investors.

  16. R. Smith says:

    Let me explain the third choice, as designed by our founding fathers.

    Article 5.

    The states hold a constitutional convention. 38 state legislatures could easily ratify for pro-state-rights amendments to curtail federal powers.

    There’s already 30 “Red” states and even the “Blue” ones have conservative assemblies and govenors. If the NE states + IL + CA can be isolated, that would be them breaks. Yep, may have to give up HI to get its “vote.”

    But DC doesn’t get a vote, nor does Congress.

  17. William says:

    I’m surprised that no one has mentioned Vermont. Vermont (the 14th state) was established prior to joining the union. Vermont has a legal right to seceed from the union. There is a small population, they already have the ability to feed the state from their own production. There is not a great deal of heavy industry in VT, but they do have a strong firearms production business, as well as one of 2 states with “constitutional carry”

  18. Jeff says:

    Interesting article! A couple of points: Texas does have water resources other than the Edwards Aquifer. The Sparta and Wilcox aquifers- and others- provide water for the state. There are also numerous reservoirs and access to rivers. Could it grow/process, and distribute all the food it needs to feed 26 million inhabitants? That remains to be seen- it would not happen over night. Energy exports from Texas could potentially help fill the balance of what is needed to make everything come together. Industrial manufacturing capability might need to be realigned in some instances, but at least you’re not starting from scratch.
    Additionally, I think at least parts of surrounding states would go with Texas. I can easily visualize western Louisiana, the oil-producing regions of New Mexico, and parts of Oklahoma joining the 2nd Republic of Texas. Wyoming, Idaho, and possibly the Dakota’s would probably join with Montana.
    It’s interesting to theorize about!

  19. Cheesy says:

    Too many liberal California pukes in Texas now. We’re seriously contemplating a move north ourselves.

  20. Roger Allen says:

    The notion that people would secede from the union is almost laughable for the reasons of wealth and laziness mentioned above. The idea is unsound from the stand point that the founding Fathers knew that no small state is an island, except Hawaii, and a larger power took them over, case in point. Our power comes from our united front against the rest of every body else. We have become weak and lazy because of wealth and a to strong central government.
    The answer is not secession, but reform with a constitutional convention. Take back the power, return it to the States, there by the people.
    History is the best teacher, I am a retired Marine Corps Officer, I’ve studied history. It repeats itself if you don’t know it and act on that information.
    We bonded together to throw off England, because it imposed taxes on us and we almost lost because of strong pro crown support.
    We have a Country that has the longest running democracy in the history of the world.
    That is because the people have stood together against all comers. The values of the Founders are ones of love of God and Liberty. We seem to have forgotten the God part by letting a small but extremely vocal minority, say God in not a part of our heritage, what a bald face lie.
    We have lost our Liberties because we gave them away by not exercising them. By not holding those who WE elect accountable, they wheedled us out of them. They give us lip service, then go vote themselves a pay and benefits raise, paid for on our backs. Yet we run our Government it like we have a runaway train. Print money with nothing to back it, Executively legislate programs that reward people for doing nothing and contributing nothing, support me from cradle to grave because I’m lazy or shiftless. Give me, give me, give me, expecting to give back nothing. Most of us work for a reward, a pay check. We do not get one if we do not work.
    We need a strong military to protect our liberties and way of life from those who would conquer us; but with oversight.
    We can’t run our own finances with little or no accountability, yet we allow our Government to do so because it is so big, we can’t.
    Forget secession and work for smaller federal government and more States rights.
    Get involved in your own States politics elect people who share your ideals and values. Then hold them strictly accountable to you for their actions.
    Make the Founders proud by taking back their vision, of a city on a hill whose light is undimmed a beacon of freedom for all.
    DumpDC by dumping the BS, get to work making it better.

    • ron isaacs says:

      you have a point, but you don’t have the time there is a reason homelandsecurity is buying all those hollow point rounds, either for use against us or to be used against the army if the don’t follow unlawfull orders, take your pick maybe both,

      • Veritas Quis Tex says:

        .40 caliber “short and weak” ain’t gonna fare so well with battle hardened combat vests wearing interceptor body armor with ballistic plates and packing M4′s, M244′s, M203′s and backed with close air support and crew served weapons…

        Add in integrated encoded communications and other nifty modern warfare points and you have bambi vs. godzilla playing that night..

    • Churchill says:

      Back then, the Americans generally came to the same conclusions and had held the same general belief using their their independent minds. Today, we have much larger multi-cultural population. A Constitutional Convention would more than likely benefit King B.O. and the Federal Reserve. Our Country is fracturing in much more than just two pieces.

      • dumpdc says:

        Mr, Churchill- A ConCon is a ridiculous idea. It would NEVER make it through Congress, so enough said. And we here at DumpDC don’t want to SAVE America, we want to see it break up into nations. Thanks, R

    • Gandalf says:

      It might be too late, already. Unless we can somehow wrest control of the media and educational systems back from the grasp of the leftists, the cause may be lost. Remember, these people began worming their way into our schools and universities, our broadcast media, and our our newspapers and magazines starting as far back as the 1940s and 50s.

      First, we have to find a way to counter 60 years, plus, of their socialist propaganda and return our educational and communications institutions back to a more fact-based and free enterprise accepting path, then we can begin to neutralize their influence on our young. Until we can find a way to do that, any hope of returning America to a leadership status in the world will remain pure fantasy.

      A good start would be: The next time you’re present at some event where an establishment politician (right or left) begins trotting out the same old party sanctioned talking points…the same tired old cookie-cutter speech tailored to what he thinks the audience wants to here, stand up and challenge him to answer a meaningful question, instead. Ask him to give details on how he would balance the budget, say, or what will happen if we put in that big multi-billion dollar mass-transit project he and his cronies want and nobody rides it? Who’s going to pay for it, and how? If the ‘policritter’ dodges the question, or refuses to answer, call him on it. Keep calling them all on it. Do some damn research and find out what these people stand for; who’s backing them; and, what “dogs” they have in the fight. Write letters to the editor. Refuse to vote for them. Support those who’s views most match your own. Work for those candidates; donate to their campaigns….or throw your own hat in the ring if you can’t find a candidate you like. But, do something, even if it’s only posting to blogs and websites like this one. If you don’t, well then, you deserve the consequences. A wise person once said, “If you keep doing what you’ve always done, you’ll keep getting what you’ve always got.” Ticked off? Good. Now do something about it!

      • dumpdc says:

        Dear Mr. Gandalf-

        What an honor to have Gandalf the Grey visit our little corner of the world. We are trying our best to create a new Middle Earth by using the Righteous One Ring of Secession. “One Ring to TEACH them all, One Ring to Find them, One Ring to Bring them all and in the new nation UNBLIND them.”

        You there in the Undying Lands in the West are perfectly situated for regaining your nationhood and freedom. It matters not that most of your inhabitants have been made slaves of Sauron and Mordor on the Potomac. It matters not that Wraiths inhabit your State Government. It matters not that there are many Orcs and Uruk-hai on the military bases there. All will be swept away when the Tower falls. That Tower is the US Dollar as world reserve currency. Once the dollar is worthless, and economic collapse occurs, self-interest will take over in Hawai’i and secession will be seen as the only solution.

        Please visit as often as you can, Mr. Gandalf. Bring fireworks. Regards, Russ

  21. Troll says:

    Texas/Oklahoma/Arizona/New Mexico/Kentucky/Tennessee/S Carolina/N Carolina have all said that they would leave the union.
    Michigan/Wisconsin/Minnesota/N Dakota/ S Dakota/Montana would be absorbed by Canada. Alaska would go to Canada. California would go back to Mexico.

    • Ken says:

      More like Texas, parts of new Mexico, co, ok, wy, ne, mt,I’d and maybe the Dekota’s. South Cali, az, and the rest of no goes back to Mexico. Or, wa, north ca, nv spin off on their own influenced by Canada. Utah could go either way to Texas or north Cali.

      • Heather says:

        Several of the states on your list were added to this country as part of the Louisiana purchase in 1803. We bought them from France, and they had nothing to do with Mexico.

  22. RegT says:

    In reply to Jackson, Wyoming was my initial choice for a move, but after becoming a resident, I discovered it is very difficult to find any place to either rent or buy, even after looking in the vicinity of many different small and large towns across the state. I could have rented an expensive apartment, but I refuse to live that way, needing to live in the country.

    Consequently, I have returned to Montana, where it is a bit easier to find affordable property – although rentals are still difficult to find if you don’t want to live in the middle of town. People planning on moving to either state need to know these dynamics _before_ moving. I am retired and have an RV to live in, so it isn’t as much of an issue for me, but I was told by locals in WY of a lot of people moving into the state who subsequently left, because they couldn’t find housing, even though they did have jobs.

    Water is also an issue in WY. In the Lander/Riverton area, I would estimate about 25%-30% of the residents outside of town had to haul water.

    • Rog says:

      RegT,
      Thanks for that intel. We want to relocate in the spring and are considering WY. We have a transportable business, and will be towing our 28′ while looking for land.

  23. Farnham says:

    States are already inching their way towards the door in a Soft Secession movement. http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/01/soft-secession-1571800.html

  24. Ed M. says:

    Anything is possilbe, but I think the human condition has it’s limits to how much meddling and soft (or other wise) tyranny a population will take, even us soft and lazy Americans. Once we start seeing that TPTB are in it for no other reason than to maintain thier power and control and we are looking into our hungry childrens eyes and are seeing family and friends disappearing under false pretense or not. Then I think, the country as we know it will under go a transformation that is anyones guess. Once things have progressed even a little farther a cascade effect may begin and we may see either a constitutional convention called or an orginized multi state secession movement starting.
    As for the US Military, if a group of people know our history it is them and I have faith that they will do the right thing when called upon.

  25. USKiwi says:

    I succeeded myself from the US 3 years ago. I left and moved to NZ as a permanent resident (and soon to be citizen). Best decision we ever made.

  26. [...] Secession: Who WILL Be First? [...]

  27. Veritas Quis Tex says:

    As a life-long Texan living in the shadow of Ft.Hood, I can assure you that those 15 military bases will NOT make secession harder.. In fact they will be CRITICAL to the effort.. Understand that there are MANY Oathkeepers, active and retired around and on these bases.. Those soldiers who entertain other loyalties will be invited to go back east with their families in peace, after all, we know each other, even share many good memories with those on the “other” side.. Such are the complexities of such schisms..

    Also know that we have many factories in the east part that produce ammunition, and not just plinking rounds.. Mortar shells, bulk military grade explosives and other critical components.. All supplied by the chemical refiners near Houston. We also have more than the lions share of military hardware producers, like Bell Textron and many others.. I once worked at Texas Instruments in Austin Texas, making the guidance and control packages for the AGM-88 H.A.R.M. system.. Oh, yeah, we have the “silicon hills”, with many high end fabs and R&D… We even have our own power grid, that exports electricity.

    And who said we would go into this alone? More than a few productive neighbors to our north, east and west will likely come along for the ride.. Along with what they bring to the table.. Trade will be of the HIGHEST priority..

    Most likely the current PTB will enclave themselves into the east..

    And pray we leave them alone.

    ‘Course, we ain’t gonna bother anybody who ain’t botherin’ us..

    We started our first conflict of Independence with:

    “Come and Take It.”..

    We’ll likely start the next one with:

    “Try and Stop Us.”

    • dumpdc says:

      Dear Veritas- Excellent comments. You’re welcome to post here anytime. Russ

    • 1totexas says:

      Now that’s what I wanted to hear! A post with some factual, practical information & strategy looking at the ‘whole pie’ of the situation and the needs. Thanks for sharing the info.

    • dan says:

      I was stationed at Ft Hood and can attest to her assessment of troops on the base who would be unwilling to engage in military action in the area, and most would probably not want to go back east but bring their families here. That would be the only part i think you got wrong I think Texas would have a large number of combat vets switch flags relatively quick and to the detriment of dc.

  28. Jake Olmstead says:

    i believe both will go if obama wins!

  29. marion says:

    The first state to secede is NOT a geographical one (though that may come, with accompanying tyrannical clampdown and suffering), but it really is a STATE OF MIND. One must secede from unjust government/tyranny in one’s own mind first, before a marriage/family/community/city/county/state can secede.

    This is not fluff but true common sense and most necessary as #1 priority before anything larger.

  30. Duke Les Gubry says:

    If either, or any state secedes, sign me up for the Secessionist Armies!

  31. 1positivegal says:

    Does anyone know if the agreement Texas struck with the United States when it joined the union still allows Texas to succeed if martial law or police power is instituted in the US? -Or if federal law prohibits succession in such a case? This potential has me concerned, since president Obama signed into law in February of 2012 a measure that will end all federal unemployment benefit payments on December 29, 2012. (go to http://www.edd.ca.gov for some of the most expanded details. Other states gov. unemployment sites talk about the date, but most don’t give much other info) Currently, according to many websites, 23,000,000 people are on unemployment, with the majority being on FEDERAL unemployment. California has 880,000 on unemployment, the majority of those on FEDERAL unemployment. Arizona has about 560,000. Most states have similar high numbers. Currently, those people will ALL file their last claim for benifits on December 30, for the period ending December 29, and with the new years holiday, get their fInal payment about January 2 or 3, 2013. What do you think will happen when almost 23,000,000 people across america spend that last payment, in the dead of winter, a week after Christmas, when most places are laying off seasonal help, -not hiring more? -My thought: there will be mass rioting in the streets and in order to restore order and quash the uprising (that they caused , deliberately , I believe) the federal government will institute Marshall law nationwide. It’s the perfect excuse and set up to do it. -And they’ll keep it going. They won’t lift it and give up that power, I’m afraid. It doesn’t seem like it will matter much whether Obama or Romney gets elected when it comes to this. We may have an easier time under Romney , but he is LDS. I grew up in a mormon (LDS) community. (though I’m not one). They believe in storing food & emergency supplies for up to 10 years! They store bulk supplies and regular rotate them to keep them fresh because of their end times beliefs. They’ve done this for decades & are quite good at it. They are also very aggressive at evangelizing for their religion, believing they’ll earn a better place in heaven. There are currently over 15,000,000 LDS worldwide. With his people’s preparation Romney would certainly be very comfortable maintaining a long duration of Marshall law. What a way to win converts! Your neighbor wants food? Well, sure. We’ll give you food. -if you join the Mormon church. Need a job? The Mormon church is one of most business enterprising organizations in the world. They are amazing interconnected & well organized. But when you go to work for a mormon business they take 10% right off the top of your check for tithe for their church. Imagine Romney , a devout LDS member who stated in the last debate he was a pastor in his church for 10years and went on missions for his church being empowered to benifit his church in a crisis like that. You could pretty much add the entire 23,000,00 of now starving penniless , unemployed population directly to the Mormon church’s current 15,000,000. Quite an effective ‘evangelizing ‘ score! I’m not saying we’ll fair better with Obama . I think it will be worse. I’m not into scare tactics. Just trying to be practical with the facts I have & be a realist. I’m hoping, like others, that it will all just miraculously go away. But why, in concrete, real terms would Obama sign this into law in february & then repeal the law in December just before the ax falls? I believe everyone should be working. I’ve worked very hard all my life. But what’s going to happen when the 23,000, suddenly , in one week, nationwide, don’t have money for food or even the basics to survive. The federal unenployement extension program is structured into 4 successive tiers so that people run out of benefits gradually at staggered times -not all in one week as Obama has now planned. I’d be real curious to hear any input from others on this.

    • Roger Allen says:

      Being a Latter-Day Saint I would have disagree with the comment that 10% of any ones check would be removed without their consent. As that would be a violation of not only God’s law but of the law of the land. Tithing is a personal issue between God and an individual, not something imposed by any one else. As far as benefiting the church by imposing marshall law that is inappropriate and would be not in keeping with the teachings of the church. If a person was interested in knowing the philosophy and regulation of the LDS church I would direct them to the official church website and have them read the Articles of Faith which clearly states the tenets of the church and it’s faith. ids.org, then click on Scriptures, then click on Pearl of Great Price, then click on Articles of Faith.

    • 1totexas says:

      Okay. Somehow zeros got dropped on the national unemployment figure in some places of the above post. The correct figure is 23,000,000 (that’s 23 million -and that’s a lot of folks)
      -what. Nobody game on telling me this will work out all rosy!?!
      To the one guy who did reply, though not about the issue but about mormons. Didn’t mean to offend. I think the Mormons have a lot of fine programs that benifit society and the communities they live in. They also espouse some very good moral ethics. But they do have some, like those that I mentioned that I don’t agree with. Sorry. We can’t all agree all the time. And I have heard from numerous reliable sources about their taking the tithe off the top of people’s paychecks. That’s their belief. It’s a free country & I don’t judge them for it so no need to get ‘brisely’ about it. If people don’t like that program , they can go get another job somewhere else – at this point. And by the way, I’m not Mormon but I am a faithful, staunch tither to my church and have been for many years so I’m not knocking tithing.

      • fabbersmith says:

        They don’t take the money, we give them the money. You may not tithe 10% but I doubt your church “takes off the top” either. One of the church’s big advantages is that the members tithe consistently, providing for a heck of a financial position to do stuff.

      • Roger Allen says:

        No offense taken. Hopefully we are all adults and can converse, disagree, have opinions, share them and come to agreement or agree to disagree, all in the process of civil discourse.
        Please let me know who these people are so that I can contact them because if some one is truly removing tithing from paychecks, that is totally incorrect and needs to be stopped. Tithing is a law of God, but it is also voluntary, as a sign of ones devotion, not to be coerced in any way. Involuntary removal of funds from ones check is theft pure and simple. So I am not misunderstood, in the bible it says;” render unto Cesar what is Cesar’s and unto God what is God’s”. (taxes and tithing) One gladly given and fairly at 10%, the other not so much.
        I apologize if I came off brisely but it erks the crap out of me when someone steals in the name of God.

  32. Roger Allen says:

    Sorry for not replying to the unemployment figures, 23 million is indeed a lot of people. We are told unemployment is around 9%, but that is of those reported that are actively seeking employment. The actual figure is some where around 22% to 24% which takes into account those that are no longer looking because they have given up hope for some reason. Not that those who no longer look have reason to hope under the current administration.
    Romeny has said that the process of removal would be gradual and that the circumstances of individuals would be taken into account. As far as assistance or entitlements being removed. Obviously there are some appropriate reasons for giving assistance and some who abuse the system. There is dignity in work and employment.
    The other thing you have to remember is that those around Obama and he as well beleave that not crisis should go unused (to further their agenda). So if they can defuse the issue of Zero Real Job Growth in the last 4 years then they can run on a scare tactic that they other guy, is planning on hurting the little guy. When in reality Obama has done more to cause hurt than any couple of leaders combined. When you take the dignity out of work by making the dole the rule rather than the exception. Then you have great control of the population, by controlling the food, water, energy, and will of the people.
    I had a conversation with a person who had great knowledge about energy and it’s production, he commented to me once, ” He who controls the energy controls the world”. Simple yet profound statement, whether that energy be in the form of oil, gas, electricity, human energy ie. will, interest, or work.
    He who does control it does indeed control the world. Independence is the answer, independence from foreign oil and energy, independence from tyranny, independence from the dole and those that would use it to control, independence from those that would control your thoughts and lead you down a primrose path with flattery and beguile you with promises. think for yourself and study it out.
    Secession is the topic of this website, If No Option is left I say do it, put all your energy into it. But be careful what you ask for.

  33. Truefreedom says:

    Actually if you read the Declaration of Independence, it provides the framework for ALL states to leave the nation if they choose.The founding fathers knew one very important thing; that they didnt know everything and they knew over times things can change. We either believe in it or we dont. I think we can all agree its the governments job to do what we want them to do,not the other way around, or the American dream of freedom and democracy is a sham.This may already be true.Maybe not. Hopefully the American public has not become so lazy and apathetic to disregard unscrupulous representation.

    • Truefreedom says:

      Keep in mind America didnt gain freedom from England through litigation. Hawaii wasn’t annexed by the U.S. by legalities. These things were done by blood and brute force. And if leaders of our countries continually make actions that threaten our inaliable rights and basic freedoms, along with the ability to provide for our families,it is pretty clear precedents has been set by individuals longing to no longer be poorly governed and falsely represented,make it clear it is actually the responsibility for all of us to be free from out of control.big government.Thats just my opinion

      • dumpdc says:

        Dear Mr. Punk: Actually, the Treaty of Paris was a legal document between King George and the Colonies. Look it up. Hawaii was indeed annexed by legalities…along with Marines. There is no stomach for secession in America yet. But when stomachs are empty, that will change. Russ

    • dumpdc says:

      Dear Cyberpunk: Yes, the American people are indeed that lazy and apathetic. Wake up and look around. Russ

  34. DontTread says:

    This will become more of realistic scenario over the next two years. Massive unemployment, business restrictions. Money talks and walks. We’ve already seen the massive migration to Texas and right to work states over the past 15 years. Fort Worth now has a city proper population equal to that of Detroit. Texas has a GDP that would put in the top tier of countries.

    There would be no tolerance amongst the public for actual violence. Minor altercations over the HHS mandate and potential weapon seizures could wake Red America up. Texas is key. Energy resources and the potential to be self-sufficient. Louisiana would join as well as the plains states to energy rich Dakotas and Wyoming. The 2nd Republic of Texas could become the top oil producer in the world. Mass migration would occur into this new super-state. Including Money. America could reach a breaking point if conservatives don’t take Congress in 2014.

    • dumpdc says:

      Dear Dont Tread-

      You are thinking the right way, Son. Although I would recommend a move into Texas before TSHTF. But stay out of the Hill Country…it’s MINE. Russ

      • DontTread says:

        I’m actually a TV weatherman but after the election I am considering shifting career paths into the political realm. Perhaps lobbying against Anthropologic Global Warming. I can no longer sit on the sidelines while my media employer spews propaganda. Hill Country is beautiful my friend. I lived in Bend OR for six years. Most beautiful medium size city in America.

  35. Ronald E. Howard says:

    Secessionists are cowards. Plain and simple. They are people who are too lazy and scared to face a challenge. They make the rest of the world laugh at this country. The rest of the world thinks us weak because of all the cowards who proudly post their names on petitions, and they would be right. I’ve never run away from problems in my life. I would never tell my children that I ran away from this nation’s problems. But if others would rather run away and hide, then let them. Don’t forget the millions of veterans who served this country; those alive and dead. To run away from the freedoms we fought for is shameful. Go to hell. All of you.

    • dumpdc says:

      Mr. Howard- On the very unlikely chance that you ever see the inside of Heaven, please tell Jefferson, Washington and Franklin what cowards they were, since they too were secessionists. Besides, you moron, secessionists do not want to run away and hide. Forming a new nation where an old state used to be means that you’re STILL HERE! Please forgive me for neglecting my Bible here, in which a Proverb says “don’t argue with a fool.” And finally, Mr. Howard, please make sure you stay away from any state that secedes. Russ

  36. David Snyder says:

    As a Texian & Member of the Texas Nationalist Movement,I hope it’s Texas.After the beginning of the second Republic of Texas,a floodgate will occur.BTW,I was solicited on thw web for a bumper sticker I liked but cannot afford now.It read:”Keep the 50 Stars,make DC secede.”

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