President of Tenth Amendment Center Agrees on Secession with DumpDC.com

After Lew Rockwell posted Lysander Spooner’s epic booklet “No Treason” as the “top story, position one” at LewRockwell.com on Tuesday, March 16th, I had a Facebook exchange with Michael Boldin, founder of the national grassroots political movement Tenth Amendment Center (TAC). Michael has given his permission to quote our exchange, so I’m posting our exchange verbatim, with notes in bold print after each exchange.

3-16 Russell Longcore to Michael Boldin

The lead post at LewRockwell.com is Lysander Spooner’s “No Treason” in its entirety. I’m amazed and delighted that Lew took this strong position. How do you continue doing 10th Amendment stuff in the face of this book’s irrefutable positions? You had a nullification article at LRC just yesterday. What gives?

3-16 Michael Boldin to Russell Longcore

Well, I believe I’m doing what’s best to help promote liberty – encouraging people to use the constitution as their line in the sand, and to actively disobey and resist anything beyond that.

Making constitutional positions is a necessity to show those people who actually believe in the “goodness” of a national government where and how often it violates our rights. Without that baseline education of the masses, how would anyone ever conceive of getting rid of the beast at all?

(Editor’s note: By educating the masses with the TRUTH about the Constitution.)

Today, we have a multi-trillion dollar budget in D.C. – if we can get the federal government down to its constitutional box some day, I believe that people with far greater minds will figure a way to reduce it from there, or maybe get rid of it.

As far as Spooner, though – I’ve loved his writings, but don’t always agree with his positions.

(Editor’s note: I could applaud the TAC’s work if it were not for the fact that the Constitution is a dead document. How exactly does a citizen, or even millions of citizens, force the DC demons back into Pandora’s box? The articles and clauses of a Constitution with no authority, combined with the powerlessness of the states to enforce any law upon a lawless rogue government, only wastes the time of both the TAC and its audience. Said another way, if you’re going to go to the trouble of stirring up the masses in revolt against DC, why not REALLY piss them off with the TRUTH and prove to them that ANY Constitutional remedy is meaningless and unworkable?)

3-17 Russell Longcore to Michael Boldin

Would it not be even more effective to inform the populace that the Constitution has no authority over their lives? Constitutional positions are not a necessity for any Americans. It’s simple. Either the Constitution is valid or it’s not. If it is truly invalid, then arguing over its articles and clauses only clouds the issue and prevents people from acting on facts.

Altering and/or abolishing the US Federal Government is the best solution. And that is best done by secession of the states, just like the USSR experienced in 1989.

Best regards,
Russ

3-17 Michael Boldin to Russell Longcore

(Editor’s note: Friends, read this response EXTREMELY CAREFULLY.)

I do agree that the constitution doesn’t have authority over people. And that’s where I disagree with Spooner the most. In fact, this is something we cover all the time! The constitution doesn’t apply to you, it doesn’t apply to me, it doesn’t apply to any person at all.

I don’t believe that spending time talking about abolishing the US government is nearly as effective as the work we’re doing, which is reaching the mainstream more and more. But, what’s great about that is pretty simple – the whole process of understanding liberty is a series of steps – something that most all of us have gone through.

1. statism in all its forms
2. something is wrong with the system, this political party will save me
3. all the parties are corrupt – maybe a third party?
4. parties and the federal government are a waste of time – decentralization.
5. secession
6. freedom from government

I’d say that TAC is clearly at #4, while your work is further down the line. But, even people at #2 and #3 are doing something good. In fact, my distrust of government was fostered heavily by – none other than Michael Moore. (it’s a long story). But, it started me on a path.

Bottom line? The more people that M.M. (Michael Moore) reaches in distrusting the establishment and their wars, the more people that will be open to hearing our message on other issues, which opens up more people to hear your message, which opens more people up to hearing the “voluntaryist” message.

And, since I don’t believe in the myth of some great libertarian dictator that will free us all, I believe that each step and those fostering activism on those steps – are essential.

Hopefully some of that makes sense!

(Editor’s note: Boldin says that the Constitution doesn’t apply to “any person at all.” But the words in the Constitution’s Preamble state, “We the People of The United States…do ordain and establish this Constitution…” If this constitution is not a document that has the legal ability to bind even one person to one other person, it is null and void. The Constitution MUST apply to ALL citizens lawfully as well as the people in “The United States”…the federal government, or it applies to no one. You cannot have it both ways.)

3-18 Russell Longcore to Michael Boldin

Good points, Michael. I’m not taking any kind of a position to abolish the US Government. I simply want the states to secede and allow the DC bunch to dissolve the way the USSR did. May I quote your email at DumpDC?

3-18 Michael Boldin to Russell Longcore

Man, I should always expect to be quoted on these kinds of conversations! I probably should pay attention to what I say a little closer these days…..

But yes, Russell – of course you can quote. I don’t think I said anything too idiotic or incomplete!

My main point on the abolishing government is that there are people who always seem to be one step further in their support of liberty. I’m sure there’s people who would say to a secessionist – “why are you wasting time on secession, when the only TRUE path is complete abolition of the state in all forms!”

Thanks for the discussion, Russell!

3-19 Russell Longcore to Michael Boldin

You’re a good man, Michael. Keep workin’ hard. Perhaps our paths will cross when folks give up on nullification and take the next logical step to secession. With the insanity in Washington that pours out on a daily basis, it’s probably won’t take all that long.

(Editor’s note: I respect Michael Boldin very much. The momentum that he and his Tenth Amendment Center have built in a very short time is awe-inspiring. Now, I call on Michael and the TAC leadership to take the next step and fully embrace state secession as the only logical and workable solution to ending the tyranny coming from the rogue government in Washington DC.

This Facebook exchange shows how close the nullification adherents are to the “Final Solution”…the dissolution of the United States and the new birth of liberty that will occur as states secede from the perceived Union.

Remember, if Spooner is correct, and the Constitution has no authority…then most of the things you and I THOUGHT we knew about governance are not true. Specifically, if your state is not bound to the Union by the Constitution, then no further action need be done when secession is contemplated. You don’t worry about resigning from a club of which you were never truly a member.)

Secession is the Hope For Mankind. Who will be first?

DumpDC. Six Letters That Can Change History.

© Copyright 2010, Russell D. Longcore. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted, provided full credit is given.

9 Responses to President of Tenth Amendment Center Agrees on Secession with DumpDC.com

  1. To save our liberty, we really must get rid of the federal government. The Anti-Federalists were right: A centralized national government, Constitutional limits or not, automatically negates a state’s independence and sovereignty, via the compulsory aspect of a state’s participation in such a “union.” And the people of said state are bound by the armed might of the feds simply by way of being outnumbered (“majority rules”) and overpowered.

    The centralized bureaucracy in Washington violates the rights of voluntary association and contracts of every human being in every state in the “Union.” Thus, the existence of the compulsory monopoly of the federal government is immoral and illegitimate. Get rid of it completely.

  2. Dale Caruso says:

    What a great conversation you had with Micheal.
    I agree – he is a noble fellow and his work and effort is to be applauded.
    Your notion that the “Constitution is a dead document,” you know when I first read that I had trouble with the statement. However, the more I think about it. Also, I do agree – “the constitution doesn’t have authority over people.”
    But, there in lies the possible beauty and brilliance of the document – it was NEVER designed too.
    Perhaps it was more intended as a guide – a blueprint of ethical governance from which to build from. Not an end – rather a path to build an end – one that could be used to conform to any particular moment in history.
    However, in thinking of it as an “absolute” – as cast in stone – we miss its message.
    To me, sort of like modern Christianity – so transfixed or fixated on the messenger, that they miss the message – and then in is the important thing – IT’S THE MESSAGE that is important.
    As to the notion of secession – perhaps it is our last best option – which is sad, because WE – not any particular party or person – but WE allowed it to become this. Liberty and Freedom do not come with an “autopilot”.
    Our Fault – a difficult notion to accept. Something I often tell people – the most heinous weapon EVER devised by the species is not nuclear, biological, or chemical – it is a weapon that has destroyed more lives since the beginning of civilization that ANYTHING ever brought to a field of battle – and it is a weapon that EACH AND EVERYONE ONE OF US POSSESS and have with us everywhere we go – it is our index finger – “.. It is HIS fault.” – “… It is HER fault.” – “… It is THEIR fault.” And rarely, if ever, can one commit suicide with this weapon. When was the last time you ever saw someone turn that finger toward their own chest and say … “… It is MY fault.”

    • dumpdc says:

      Mr. Caruso-
      Unlike the operatic tenor Enrico Caruso, you sing a discordant song. The Constitution was written to directly affect each of the “People of the United States”…both in the States and in the new Federal Government. If it were only intended as a guide, as you assert, it would not need ratification. It could have been published as a pamphlet, like Tom Paine’s “Common Sense.” The Constitution was directly intended to be an absolute.
      Please wake up from your sleepwalking and deal with reality. The condition in which America finds itself is certainly due to “our fault,” but that is spread over 160 years of national sleepwalking that allowed the FedGov to steal America from the States. It’s too late to blame. Now is the time for action. Thanks for taking the time to write.

  3. Dale Caruso says:

    “Perhaps it was more intended as a guide” – was a speculation on my part. Wouldn’t it, in addition to affecting “each of the “People of the United States”…both in the States and in the new Federal Government,” be also the hope of its framers to be a “guide” to future generations as well? And this I pose truly as a question.

  4. MiliLib says:

    The way I see it, you’re both right. In the end, what you’re both trying to do isn’t to “prove” anything, it’s to sell it to an audience. You’re trying to educate and win people over to a cause. That’s marketing.

    The two of you have the same basic cause, but your target markets are different. Boldin’s market are the large cadre of “conservative liberty lovers,” many of whom are parchment worshippers (I mean Constitutionalists). The market you’re aiming for, Mr. Longcore, is the group of us that are already convinced the U.S. Constitution is just a piece of paper that, while written pretty well, isn’t really anything more.

    Both approaches are aiming to tell people that the federal government is no longer needed and is, in deed, a parasite.

    So, like I said, you’re both right. The Constitution does allow for secession, which the 10th Amendment Center preaches, and for most, that document is still the “supreme law of the land.” For the rest of us, though, we’re more interested in, well, Dumping DC outright and all the trappings that go with it.

  5. greatdivorce says:

    I agree with my brother Scott: “To save our liberty, we really must get rid of the federal government. ” However, I would suggest that succession, revolution, and the like aren’t the way to go about it. Why not just (Constitutionally, legally) dissolve the Union? It’s not like the Statists and anti-Statist like each-other, or could ever possibly get along. Dissolve the Union, I say — and let the States decide where they belong.

    Anyhow, I set up a blog to that effect — check it out if you wish. If not, at least please consider the suggestion.

    Hey editor — if this post goes against your policy on blog plugging or something, no hard feelings if you delete the post. Still love your blog.

  6. rhean says:

    nice blog and very informative writeup keep it up.

  7. yardbird says:

    I frequently read both this site and mr. Boldin’s site as well. I have been trying to reach the people in the small community I live in on a local website.

    while it is fairly easy to discuss these most important matters on this website with like minded persons whom i will probably never know,it is more difficult on a more personal basis. I felt that people would be more apt to respond to the message of liberty and what it means, if it were coming from someone who they could run into at the local grocery store.

    one of the most important aspects of getting people to understand the message of liberty is getting them to understand that we must take a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. this is very difficult as most individuals will try desperately to keep from learning the truth about themselves. it is necessary though for us to learn on an individual basis how the government intrusion in our lives has altered us into what Frederic Hayek called serfs. one must be able to see that he is not free ,but is a slave to the state before the tree of liberty will begin to blossom within him or her. it is not easy to except that what you have believed your entire life is a lie, but that is the task you and I and everyone who believes in your message is up against.

    this site is one of many I have used as my inspiration, in my attempt to reach the people of my small community( population about 1100 ). I have used the forums on the local website to try and lead people to find the truth. however getting people to respond to my post has been like pulling teeth. I know people are reading what i have written, but perhaps they are afraid to get involved. I have stopped just short of calling for secession, but I have come to believe that may indeed be the answer. I wanted to say thanks for your effort, it will not be in vain.

  8. JBernoulli says:

    I am glad that this topic was discussed on this blog, totally agree with all the above.

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