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	<title>Comments on: The FRONA Constitution</title>
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	<link>http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/the-frona-constitution/</link>
	<description>It&#039;s Secession Or Slavery. Choose One. There Is No Third Choice.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 16 May 2013 00:30:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: The FRONA Constitution &#171; occupysecession</title>
		<link>http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/the-frona-constitution/#comment-22262</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The FRONA Constitution &#171; occupysecession]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/?p=6082#comment-22262</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Dump DC [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dump DC [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Sixpack</title>
		<link>http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/the-frona-constitution/#comment-22153</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe Sixpack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2012 12:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/?p=6082#comment-22153</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I see your point, but i don&#039;t think it&#039;s the same beast this time around. We can, however, hope for a semi smooth transition.
Keep up the good work at any rate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see your point, but i don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s the same beast this time around. We can, however, hope for a semi smooth transition.<br />
Keep up the good work at any rate.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Streeper</title>
		<link>http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/the-frona-constitution/#comment-22145</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Streeper]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2012 04:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/?p=6082#comment-22145</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ricky, why is promotion secession &quot;treasonous?&quot; It&#039;s certainly not defined in the constitution as such, and as a matter of fact is a constitutionally protected right under the free speech amendment included in the Bill of Rights.

Furthermore, if secession were so bad, why is it so popular around the globe and supported by our own country? The original 13 colonies seceded from the British Empire by fighting a revolution... The United States aided the Panamanians in their fight for self determination against Clumbia... I could go on and on... and on....

For Texas!
-C. W. Streeper]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ricky, why is promotion secession &#8220;treasonous?&#8221; It&#8217;s certainly not defined in the constitution as such, and as a matter of fact is a constitutionally protected right under the free speech amendment included in the Bill of Rights.</p>
<p>Furthermore, if secession were so bad, why is it so popular around the globe and supported by our own country? The original 13 colonies seceded from the British Empire by fighting a revolution&#8230; The United States aided the Panamanians in their fight for self determination against Clumbia&#8230; I could go on and on&#8230; and on&#8230;.</p>
<p>For Texas!<br />
-C. W. Streeper</p>
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		<title>By: dumpdc</title>
		<link>http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/the-frona-constitution/#comment-22140</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dumpdc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2012 01:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/?p=6082#comment-22140</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mr. You- At least I am thinking of alternatives to just putting a gun in my mouth. And you do not factor in (a) how many of us there are, and (b) what economic collapse will do to the mindsets of the sheep. You also seem to have no understanding of what actually happened in the USSR.  Please leave me out of your &quot;WE&quot; when you are throwing up your hands and quitting. What a loser. When a FRONA actually happens, stay home.   Russ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. You- At least I am thinking of alternatives to just putting a gun in my mouth. And you do not factor in (a) how many of us there are, and (b) what economic collapse will do to the mindsets of the sheep. You also seem to have no understanding of what actually happened in the USSR.  Please leave me out of your &#8220;WE&#8221; when you are throwing up your hands and quitting. What a loser. When a FRONA actually happens, stay home.   Russ</p>
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		<title>By: dumpdc</title>
		<link>http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/the-frona-constitution/#comment-22139</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dumpdc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2012 01:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/?p=6082#comment-22139</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good comments, Klein. You&#039;re right about the quality of the populace. FRONA will attract the cream of the cream. With no giveaways, parasites will be few. The parasites that already live where FRONA is when it organizes will either become producers or leave. 
Are there any states that do not have a sales tax in place? I don&#039;t think so. That means that everybody is already pretty used to the process. And who would bitch about the sales tax if that was the ONLY tax? FRONA is not being organized around assholes. It is actually preventive of most assholishness.  Russ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good comments, Klein. You&#8217;re right about the quality of the populace. FRONA will attract the cream of the cream. With no giveaways, parasites will be few. The parasites that already live where FRONA is when it organizes will either become producers or leave.<br />
Are there any states that do not have a sales tax in place? I don&#8217;t think so. That means that everybody is already pretty used to the process. And who would bitch about the sales tax if that was the ONLY tax? FRONA is not being organized around assholes. It is actually preventive of most assholishness.  Russ</p>
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		<title>By: fabbersmith</title>
		<link>http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/the-frona-constitution/#comment-22131</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fabbersmith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 20:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/?p=6082#comment-22131</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There will probably be several &quot;FRONAs.&quot;  As you said, we&#039;ll not be getting back together into a single union, so we&#039;ll break up by states at least, but likely manage slightly larger regional governments.  And we&#039;ll start the &quot;great experiment&quot; all over again, from different points of view, at different levels, and again, we&#039;ll see how things go.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There will probably be several &#8220;FRONAs.&#8221;  As you said, we&#8217;ll not be getting back together into a single union, so we&#8217;ll break up by states at least, but likely manage slightly larger regional governments.  And we&#8217;ll start the &#8220;great experiment&#8221; all over again, from different points of view, at different levels, and again, we&#8217;ll see how things go.</p>
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		<title>By: Hey You</title>
		<link>http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/the-frona-constitution/#comment-22119</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hey You]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/?p=6082#comment-22119</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The secession thought is nice, but is only a thought.  We, collectively are just too far gone and mixed up into various pressure groups and cultural groups for any independent and viable &quot;nation&quot; to survive from the ashes of any further USA.

There is little, if any, coherent social fabric to bind the groups into any viable system.  We often hear of how the USSR changed into various nations, but it appears that the nations had a least some semblance of cultural cohesion.  Not so in the USA.  

Thus, there seems little light at the end of the USA tunnel.  We simply don&#039;t have what it takes to bond together into a &quot;Frona&quot; or in any other meaningful political enterprise.  Nice idea, but rioting seems the preferred outlet for discontent in this mixed-up society.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The secession thought is nice, but is only a thought.  We, collectively are just too far gone and mixed up into various pressure groups and cultural groups for any independent and viable &#8220;nation&#8221; to survive from the ashes of any further USA.</p>
<p>There is little, if any, coherent social fabric to bind the groups into any viable system.  We often hear of how the USSR changed into various nations, but it appears that the nations had a least some semblance of cultural cohesion.  Not so in the USA.  </p>
<p>Thus, there seems little light at the end of the USA tunnel.  We simply don&#8217;t have what it takes to bond together into a &#8220;Frona&#8221; or in any other meaningful political enterprise.  Nice idea, but rioting seems the preferred outlet for discontent in this mixed-up society.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Klein</title>
		<link>http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/the-frona-constitution/#comment-22118</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim Klein]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 14:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/?p=6082#comment-22118</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was hoping you&#039;d think of something!  Seriously, I&#039;m not sure how to answer and I do understand the sense of consumption taxes versus other taxes.  Many people, including Rand, imagine &quot;service fees&quot; and such, for using what are supposedly the &quot;legitimate&quot; uses of government like registrations, appeals to dispute resolution mechanisms and so on,.

As you may know, I tend to think in principles and figure that the details will take care of themselves.  The fundamental problem is forcing individuals to pay for what they don&#039;t want to.  Personally, I just don&#039;t see this as much of a problem in the sort of society you imagine.

Mainly, such a society figures to have huge production and a highly rational populace.  I&#039;d say the presumption has to be that such rational, productive folk will have no problem both figuring out what are legitimate common functions--which all basically reduce to defense against initiatory force--and paying for them.  I mean, look at how much we spend individually NOW for arms and such; imagine that collectivized voluntarily to defend a peaceable and rational society.  The cup will runneth over, I&#039;m sure.

As far as roads, sewer systems, power and all that, I just don&#039;t give a hoot.  Or I&#039;ll put it this way---if I do give a hoot, I&#039;ll pay.  I figure a free society won&#039;t be full of moochers and the value of living in such a free society will be judged so high, that it won&#039;t be necessary to force the participants to do pretty much anything.  In a nutshell, I think it&#039;s obvious that they&#039;ll WANT to do what&#039;s right.

But then, I&#039;m regularly charged as an idealist.  I suppose any community has its share of a-holes; I just don&#039;t think a society should be organized around them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was hoping you&#8217;d think of something!  Seriously, I&#8217;m not sure how to answer and I do understand the sense of consumption taxes versus other taxes.  Many people, including Rand, imagine &#8220;service fees&#8221; and such, for using what are supposedly the &#8220;legitimate&#8221; uses of government like registrations, appeals to dispute resolution mechanisms and so on,.</p>
<p>As you may know, I tend to think in principles and figure that the details will take care of themselves.  The fundamental problem is forcing individuals to pay for what they don&#8217;t want to.  Personally, I just don&#8217;t see this as much of a problem in the sort of society you imagine.</p>
<p>Mainly, such a society figures to have huge production and a highly rational populace.  I&#8217;d say the presumption has to be that such rational, productive folk will have no problem both figuring out what are legitimate common functions&#8211;which all basically reduce to defense against initiatory force&#8211;and paying for them.  I mean, look at how much we spend individually NOW for arms and such; imagine that collectivized voluntarily to defend a peaceable and rational society.  The cup will runneth over, I&#8217;m sure.</p>
<p>As far as roads, sewer systems, power and all that, I just don&#8217;t give a hoot.  Or I&#8217;ll put it this way&#8212;if I do give a hoot, I&#8217;ll pay.  I figure a free society won&#8217;t be full of moochers and the value of living in such a free society will be judged so high, that it won&#8217;t be necessary to force the participants to do pretty much anything.  In a nutshell, I think it&#8217;s obvious that they&#8217;ll WANT to do what&#8217;s right.</p>
<p>But then, I&#8217;m regularly charged as an idealist.  I suppose any community has its share of a-holes; I just don&#8217;t think a society should be organized around them.</p>
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		<title>By: kunmiester</title>
		<link>http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/the-frona-constitution/#comment-22092</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kunmiester]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2012 20:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/?p=6082#comment-22092</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How&#039;s this for funding--poll tax.  To keep the lines down, you can prepay up to a week in advance, but you have to pay within a week of voting--the timing mostly puts the money and the elections together, something we don&#039;t get now.  If you want to decide how the money is spent, you have to pay into the system.  Government departments would be similar, with usage fees and a right to vote on how those fees are used.  Tourists and such would pay a fee upon entering, covering their needed contribution.  Not sure about representation there.

Any attempt to raise taxes would be fought vehemently since it disenfranchises poor people, though I&#039;m sure numerous organizations would exist to distribute funds to help poor people pay, helping them participate, which assistance would not be illegal(though it&#039;d be impossible for the helpers to determine if they wanted to vote or decided that X money in their pockets is better).

This also falls in with the corporate idea, since only paying shareholders would vote.

Would people who refuse this corporation&#039;s authority be allowed to set up their own and use it for government instead?  That gets in with the non-territorial canton idea I&#039;ve heard before.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How&#8217;s this for funding&#8211;poll tax.  To keep the lines down, you can prepay up to a week in advance, but you have to pay within a week of voting&#8211;the timing mostly puts the money and the elections together, something we don&#8217;t get now.  If you want to decide how the money is spent, you have to pay into the system.  Government departments would be similar, with usage fees and a right to vote on how those fees are used.  Tourists and such would pay a fee upon entering, covering their needed contribution.  Not sure about representation there.</p>
<p>Any attempt to raise taxes would be fought vehemently since it disenfranchises poor people, though I&#8217;m sure numerous organizations would exist to distribute funds to help poor people pay, helping them participate, which assistance would not be illegal(though it&#8217;d be impossible for the helpers to determine if they wanted to vote or decided that X money in their pockets is better).</p>
<p>This also falls in with the corporate idea, since only paying shareholders would vote.</p>
<p>Would people who refuse this corporation&#8217;s authority be allowed to set up their own and use it for government instead?  That gets in with the non-territorial canton idea I&#8217;ve heard before.</p>
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		<title>By: dumpdc</title>
		<link>http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/the-frona-constitution/#comment-22091</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dumpdc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2012 20:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/?p=6082#comment-22091</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mr. Klein-  please offer some thoughts on voluntary funding. My affinity for the sales tax is due to the fact that non-citizens and tourist contribute to FRONA&#039;s existence.  RDL]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Klein-  please offer some thoughts on voluntary funding. My affinity for the sales tax is due to the fact that non-citizens and tourist contribute to FRONA&#8217;s existence.  RDL</p>
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